Author Topic: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!  (Read 561 times)

vripley

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Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« on: March 27, 2019, 04:59:30 PM »
Fire! Fire! Words that no one ever wants to hear... Especially if you're a player character already dealing with evil and mayhem. Well, I thought fighting fires would be an epic addition to my adventures, so as a GM I searched for rules. And, the Savage Worlds Adventure Edition Rulebook does cover fire, but it doesn't really talk about the fact that fires can grow out of control. I wanted a burning building scenario where the players would need to interact with and fight a fire. So I searched the Interwebs and came up with a few good plans and ideas. I found a few ideas that did a great job, so I converted them to accommodate SWADE. Some of my adventurer's mentioned that it reminded them of Pandemic, regardless it seemed like a good way to throw a raging fire into our game. The one thing that I did discover is that fire (just like in real life) can be a very tricky thing to play with... During pre-game play testing, my entire party of player characters died in the fire because I started it growing immediately, and they didn't actually interact with it until it was a level 3. For last night's game (there is a video below that you can watch to see it in gory detail), I decided to keep the fire at level 1 until they started fighting it. They managed to control the fire fairly easily. I think there might have been a happy medium of letting the fire go one level up (to two) and then give them a tough battle, yet make it doable. I plan to tweak fire rules as our adventure continues and I'm hoping to perfect it for our world.

That said, you can download a PDF copy of my rules by clicking here.

And, this is a video that briefly goes over some of the rules and includes a ten minute clip (at the end) from our adventure that covers the PCs battling a fire:

« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 03:29:35 PM by vripley »

Dbelgard

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 11:09:08 PM »
The fire was very cool!  Needs a few tweaks to really make it lifelike/challenging.  One suggestion would be that water douaing only reduces it by d6/2 rounded down. 

hatchethand

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2019, 11:14:35 AM »
Dave keeps saying stuff like this because he's playing a rock that doesn't care about fire damage.

Paul

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2019, 01:59:58 PM »
While it didn't happen to affect us, it seems really dangerous to have all the fires that match a d6 double in size. Since they all start out at the same level, and each raise at the same level, your d6 is an 'all or nothing' doubling effect until they start to be reduced (but not extinguished) by the players. This could very easily become an unwinnable situation for the firefighters. I think if you had each fire do its own growth or doubling independently, you'd get a more averaged and therefore balanced growth rate that could be battled. Consider having each fire roll a d4-2 to grow. This means that they can shrink on their own, or remain steady, but on average (because of acing) they will grow at an average rate of 1.333 per turn. A fire that exceeds 6 in size moves anything over 6 into a new fire, which will happen on average every 4.5 turns. But if the original fire is still a level 6, its going to be pumping out new fires 50% of the time, which would be catastrophic to control. It might be best to have any fire over level 6 split into two smaller fires whose level sum is the original level.
This can then become a math problem to solve for if the players should be able to put the fire out :). You could then 'tune' the number of fires, or the distance of the fires from the door (thus increasing the time required to douse a flame) to give the players some particular percentage chance of success. I'll leave the calculus required for that up to the other math nerds in the group (you know who you are).

vripley

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2019, 02:21:29 PM »
While it didn't happen to affect us, it seems really dangerous to have all the fires that match a d6 double in size. Since they all start out at the same level, and each raise at the same level, your d6 is an 'all or nothing' doubling effect until they start to be reduced (but not extinguished) by the players. This could very easily become an unwinnable situation for the firefighters. I think if you had each fire do its own growth or doubling independently, you'd get a more averaged and therefore balanced growth rate that could be battled. Consider having each fire roll a d4-2 to grow. This means that they can shrink on their own, or remain steady, but on average (because of acing) they will grow at an average rate of 1.333 per turn. A fire that exceeds 6 in size moves anything over 6 into a new fire, which will happen on average every 4.5 turns. But if the original fire is still a level 6, its going to be pumping out new fires 50% of the time, which would be catastrophic to control. It might be best to have any fire over level 6 split into two smaller fires whose level sum is the original level.
This can then become a math problem to solve for if the players should be able to put the fire out :). You could then 'tune' the number of fires, or the distance of the fires from the door (thus increasing the time required to douse a flame) to give the players some particular percentage chance of success. I'll leave the calculus required for that up to the other math nerds in the group (you know who you are).
I like where you're going with this! Also, a few online SWADE guys recommended using cards for the random fire effect table instead of a d20 (which isn't even technically in the game). And, make red cards be minor effect and black cards be major (worse) effect. I kind of like that idea! I wonder if we should tone the effects down a hair and then make it every round, based on their Action Card drawing...?

Paul

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2019, 05:03:57 PM »
Yeah, I like the idea of card influencing the fire behavior as a group. It seems weird to me that getting next to a fire should make that particular fire do something it wouldn't have otherwise done (other than burning or otherwise effecting me). How about something like:
  • Joker: Building starts to collapse completely. Players need to exit immediately, agility checks required by all players or take 2d4 from falling debris. This continues until the building has fallen, or all players exit.
  • Ace: Flashover - add 1d6 additional fires, and all players in building take 2d4 damage.
  • King: Explosion: Something in building explodes causing 2d6 damage to nearby players and 1d4 additional level 1 fires.
  • Queen: Major falling debris: 1d6 random areas blocked. Roll a d4 for each player individually to determine if they are potentially affected - those that roll a 1 must make agility checks or suffer 2d4 damage. If above the ground floor, 1/3 chance (1 or 2 on a d6) that the floor collapses leaving a hole, and player falls through if they failed agility check.
  • Jack: Thick smoke: all players must make their vigor roll at -2 this round.
  • 10: Fast fire: Fire growth rate increased this turn (growth of d6 instead of d4-1).
  • 9: Minor falling debris: Debris falls, blocking paths in 1d4 random locations (not on a player). If above the ground floor, 1/3 chance (1 or 2 on a d6) that the floor collapses leaving a hole.
  • 5,6,7 or 8: No additional effects.
  • 4: Slow growth: Fires growth reduced by 1 this turn (growth of d4-2 instead of d4-1).
  • 3: No growth: Fires do not increase in size this turn.
  • 2: Burn out: Decrease the size of all fire by 1 and do not grow this turn.
club suit effects (combined with the above)
  • club: Dousing damage is at -1 penalty this round.
  • diamond: Dousing damage is at +1 bonus this round.
  • heart or spade: Normal.

Dbelgard

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2019, 05:45:26 PM »
I think that a fire that is over six would only start a fire on an adjacent square that does not already have a fire on it. 

Paul

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2019, 05:51:16 PM »
I think that a fire that is over six would only start a fire on an adjacent square that does not already have a fire on it. 
Sure, but there are 7 non-lit spaces around a level 6 fire that has sprouted one fire already, so it will keep growing fast under the original rules (where each fire increases by 1 each turn)

vripley

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2019, 06:36:19 PM »
Yeah, I like the idea of card influencing the fire behavior as a group. It seems weird to me that getting next to a fire should make that particular fire do something it wouldn't have otherwise done (other than burning or otherwise effecting me). How about something like:
  • Joker: Building starts to collapse completely. Players need to exit immediately, agility checks required by all players or take 2d4 from falling debris. This continues until the building has fallen, or all players exit.
  • Ace: Flashover - add 1d6 additional fires, and all players in building take 2d4 damage.
  • King: Explosion: Something in building explodes causing 2d6 damage to nearby players and 1d4 additional level 1 fires.
  • Queen: Major falling debris: 1d6 random areas blocked. Roll a d4 for each player individually to determine if they are potentially affected - those that roll a 1 must make agility checks or suffer 2d4 damage. If above the ground floor, 1/3 chance (1 or 2 on a d6) that the floor collapses leaving a hole, and player falls through if they failed agility check.
  • Jack: Thick smoke: all players must make their vigor roll at -2 this round.
  • 10: Fast fire: Fire growth rate increased this turn (growth of d6 instead of d4-1).
  • 9: Minor falling debris: Debris falls, blocking paths in 1d4 random locations (not on a player). If above the ground floor, 1/3 chance (1 or 2 on a d6) that the floor collapses leaving a hole.
  • 5,6,7 or 8: No additional effects.
  • 4: Slow growth: Fires growth reduced by 1 this turn (growth of d4-2 instead of d4-1).
  • 3: No growth: Fires do not increase in size this turn.
  • 2: Burn out: Decrease the size of all fire by 1 and do not grow this turn.
club suit effects (combined with the above)
  • club: Dousing damage is at -1 penalty this round.
  • diamond: Dousing damage is at +1 bonus this round.
  • heart or spade: Normal.
Fantastic! I'll start working on the effects table and see if we need to do any tweaks.

vripley

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2019, 01:48:13 PM »
Here's the latest fire fighting rule-set, with SWADE Action Card effect table and a few other adjustments...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dimi9oxic27vdi5/SWADE_Fire_Rules_Adaption.pdf?dl=0
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 02:00:00 PM by vripley »

Paul

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2019, 03:10:12 PM »
This part confused me before when you were explaining it, and still confuses me now:
Quote
The Power Elemental Manipulation (with Water Trappings) only makes a quart of water and will reduce the level of a fire by d4-3. Note: every raise modifies the roll by +1, e.g. 4 raises (which costs 5 PP) would reduce the fire level by d4+1.

I think you mean to say 'ace' when you said 'raise'. An ace is the top roll for the die, while a raise is 4 over the TN. But the confusing part is when you say 'costs 5 PP', are you saying that I can buy raises to my casting or damage roll for power points? When is that rule? My understanding was that any action roll could only benefit from a single raise. In the case of Elemental Manipulation, it states that the element would act with a d8 strength instead of a the normal d6 strength.

vripley

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Re: Fire! Help! Fire!!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2019, 06:46:48 PM »
This part confused me before when you were explaining it, and still confuses me now:
Quote
The Power Elemental Manipulation (with Water Trappings) only makes a quart of water and will reduce the level of a fire by d4-3. Note: every raise modifies the roll by +1, e.g. 4 raises (which costs 5 PP) would reduce the fire level by d4+1.

I think you mean to say 'ace' when you said 'raise'. An ace is the top roll for the die, while a raise is 4 over the TN. But the confusing part is when you say 'costs 5 PP', are you saying that I can buy raises to my casting or damage roll for power points? When is that rule? My understanding was that any action roll could only benefit from a single raise. In the case of Elemental Manipulation, it states that the element would act with a d8 strength instead of a the normal d6 strength.
I meant raise. I know that Elemental Manipulation doesn't specifically say you can create more water for a raise, but it does say, "The power acts as if it has a d6
Strength, or d8 with a raise." Since the strength goes up 1 die, I thought if you were focusing your raise on quantity instead, that should work too. So, I figured, you could boost your Power Points . Sort of made sense in my mind.